I took too long to post...lol...so here it is anyway...
Since you started my thread off well I will go ahead and post how I feel. There are several areas and aspects to this conversation and unfortunately the good and bad almost equal each other out. What I mean by this is that I do not think there will be any common ground per say for some on this issue. Some swear they will never buy any, and others who would. I lay in between. Jim, I can see your point straight through and through, but here's how I feel on it. Almost all species of animals have been wild caught at one time. In order to get them into the market to become captive bred they have to be imported here and keepers/breeders/professionals/etc. have to be able to breed enough to settle the demands in the trade. Now before anyone gets heated and wants to tear me a new @sshole, please read on. I think that there is some sort of common ground that can be met and standards for shipping in animals must change. If it means the price of animal goes up because the guaranteed success of the animal being imported is increased then maybe that should happen. Many animals are brought here in crates, and most animals don't make the long and stressful journey here in conditions where they are not taken care of well (this is an opinion not fact). This is how the trade is. Do I like it, hell no. I do have some wild caught specimens here at my house, not in dart frogs but as in tree frogs. My peacocks are almost impossible to breed in captivity due to the lack of knowledge and know how know on the internet or outside of zoos (They might have been bread accidentally but not a stable population enough to supply a demand.). At the moment mine are calling, although no known records have been kept on this frog in regards to breeding behavior as I know, as an ASN member of TWI, I am studying this frog and recording data on them. I will have these frogs breeding all it takes is time. Now I know this is a bit off topic but here's the thing. It is cheaper to get these frogs imported rather than spend thousands of dollars trying to figure out how these frogs breed or how to get them into the market after it has been figured out. If one person figures it out, and it is not an easy task for others to follow then they won't try. This is the same in dart frogs and other animals that come in Wild Caught. It is less expensive to import them here rather than breed and distribute. That is the problem.
So where does one go from here. I am not sure how to answer. In my option there is a time and place to buy a W. C. Specimen. If the option is available to buy captive bred then that should be the route taken because theoretically this will help out the breeders and small/large businesses out there and decrease the amount imported coming in. BUT here's the problem, even if there is one animal that seems to make it out of that cycle another will take its place due to trends in the market and demands of its people.
I have to be honest, the average citizen does not ask if an animal is W. C. or C. B. when they walk into a pet shop or store and if they do I would presume they are in the hobby for awhile and know what they are doing. The ones who buy on impulse and the ones who just want it because of color or what the animal happens to be.
So where does this lie for importing/exporting/issues with W.C. vs C. B. it's all a matter of option and all should be regulated in some way to keep the checks and balances in regards to population controls from where they are being imported from and how they are sent here. I do not see a problem with buying W. C. species as long as it is not destroying the populations it has left behind.
IT IS KEY to know where you are getting your frogs from, how they are being shipped and the reputation of the people you are receiving these animals from because not all animals die horrible deaths in crates on long journeys. Yes there is some loss but not terrible. It depends on who is sending them and if they are reputable enough to do business with.
PS: If I couldn't get my hands on certain species of amphibians here in the U. S. new morphs or new amphibians would not be in the trade and average joes like me couldn't figure out how to breed rare animals and help zoos, etc. in the education in conserving these animals for the future. Like I said, there are a lot of good things and a lot of bad. Know who you are dealing with and theoretically these people will disappear, but of course where their is one stupid f*cker, there will be another.
---------- Post added at 04:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by socaled
If I had the chance I would buy WC just because they are in my opinion a challenge to care for because of where they originated from..... I'm not for, though, a quick sale on the market for WC... I would prefer that the specimen was already quarantined and acclimated to the tank life... I know many would disagree but I think having a Wild caught frog would only make you want to take care of it better than where it once was... But then again I don't go looking for WC..... Just a side note I know people that buy WC panther chameleons so they can start they're own bloodline of Chams I would not doubt that people can and will do that with any other animals including frogs.... This is just my honest opinion so I hope no one gets upset at it.
-Angeles
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There is no reason why someone would get upset over that. At least not me in the issue of buying for new bloodlines. I would do the same thing, but taking care of animals should always be the same and consistent. Shoot why buy W. C. Chams! Just go visit Philisuma in FL they have them wild there now. LOL
