Originally Posted by jellyman

Another classic Frye rant and the circling motion of credibility comtinues.

Rich does an exceptional job at not posting all the facts. Let me explain. Rich offered to pay for the first fecal that his brother performed. The fecal was a mass collection of all the frogs and came back clean. The test was not actually free. I paid $18 to overnight frog terds to his brother. So yes, I saved $18 on the first exam but paid $18 to have them mailed. I verified with his brother that since the sample came from a source containing 17 frogs that the likely hood of them being infected was slim but not 100%. I then asked my vet that I have used for my chameleon, boas, and tortoises if he could perform the fecals on the dart frogs. Guess what, Rich's brother is not the only vet in the country capable of performing these test. And my vet only charges $15 and there is no overnight mailing charge for me. So I spent $45 to do 3 additional test in one month increments. So actually I do know my frogs are clean.

Next Rich claims my frogs are not breeding or producing. Fact is that I never entered this hobby to produce frogs. I never pulled aggs to raise. Simple fact of the matter is that the eggs produced over the years were destroyed by the other frogs before they could develop. Due to Rich's only avenue to discredit my enclosures WAS that the "frogs have not produced offspring" I have been inspired to start pulling eggs and raising tads. Fact, I should have 3 tads coming out of the water hopefully within the next few weeks if all goes well. This is all new to me so I can only say that I hope I am raising the tads properly. Fact, I am now pulling on average 5-8 fertilized eggs per week. Fact, about half of those eggs are successfully morping into tadpoles. Fact, tadpoles have sprouted back legs. Fact, I pulled 5 more eggs 2 nights ago. Fact, all "possible" current tads/frogs are already spoken for.

Fact, most people do use the yardstick of beauty to measure the quality of a frog. I'm not sure how this enhances your arguement. Most people have no idea of what the frogs naturalistic behaviors are and most enclosures do not even remotely resemble the frogs naturalistic environment. Fact, most breeders do not test all their frogs. Most breeders do not test at all. At best, a good breeder will do spot testing. An honest breeder will inform you that it would be to costly to test every forg. Take this even further. MOST buyers do not test their frogs. MOST buyers hope they have done their research and hope they are buying clean frogs froma reputable breeder.

Locale data at best is faith. Faith that these mystery locales even exist and if they do exactly where?? Most locale data is the name of the closest village or town or stream or whatever. What direction from that name? How many miles from that name? What other frogs are in the "naturalistic" range of the locale data? You have taken the word of whomever imported these frogs that the locale data is accurate.

This classic quote from Frye sums up his inability to grasp reality:
"Your frogs lay on top of each other , have not been fully tested, do not produce offspring, and look like they have been planning an escape for some years now."

17 frogs in a 6'x3'x30"high vivarium hardly lay on top of each other. The photo Rich likes to post is less then a 12"x12" section of an enclosure during feeding time when the frogs do come together as a group to eat. Typically I do spread the food out but to get a picture with them all together I spot feed on occassion. Again the frogs have not only been tested once by his brother with a clean test but also 3 seperate tests by a local vet. And thanks to the inspiration given to me by Rich I have been pulling eggs for the last 3 months and am happy to say that I now have tads that have popped their back legs and will hopefully be out of the water soon. So for those of you that are against hybrids you have Rich Frye to thank for giving me the inspiration I had not previously had to raise any frogs.

Rich, I hope you continue to produce beautiful frogs. I hope you continue to stay true to your passions. I hope one day you find a way to interact with people that disagree with you in a civil mannor.

And you will probably find words like "alot" or some other possible typo. Please feel free to point these out.