jimmy11

Hey I am new to this forum and frogs. I really want to get into dart frogs.But I want to get as much info and do as much research as I can before I get serious. I really want to do this right and not half ass it. I have been saving money to do this so I have a couple of grand to play with. But I just want to get one huge tank and put different frogs in it and I have seen on other forums and,people get all bitchy when you ask if you can do this. I really hope this site isnt like that I saw it was new and thought I would give it a try so I hope people will be cool. I am just trying to get as much info as I can so I dont have a disater. So dont tell me oh its your first time you should get a small tank with only two frogs of the same species. I am gonna get a big tank so I can get rid of the whole ''the tank is to small'' B.S.. Is there anybody who has had success with mixing tanks and could help me with tips on keeping a succesful mixed tank and dont be scared to give me advice because all these other people on other sites may say dont do it. Plus I was wondering if there is anybody around the so cal area that could help me out like a good breeder or a supplier for vivariums, and or good reptile stores around los angeles. I actually live in ventura county and there is nothing around here for dart frogs. I went to reptile depot,but those guys didnt know much about the frogs. And they were kinda rude probably cause I was asking questions and they didnt know the answers. Anyways thanks for your time and consideration, and please dont get all bitchy about the mixing thing. You either help me out to make it sucessful for the frogs or you dont. I know about the whole cross breeding thing too. And my frogs will not be for breeding they will be to look at. Thank you for your time and consideration remember I want to do it right for the frogs, but not have only one species in a little ass tank or one species in a big tank for that matter

406frogger

Well its good that you want to go with a large tank, how large a tank were you thinking?

You wont get a warm welcome for the whole mixing topic here either, I know thats not what you want to hear. There are a few people that do mix tanks (I am not one of them), but its generally set up to fail before it starts.

As for the crossbreeding topic, any time you put adult frogs of species that can interbreed you should expect them to do so. Not just claim it was an accident, i didnt intend for them to breed bs, just as so many do people that mixed vivs do.

In So Cal, you have lots of options for breeders, but i ll leave that up to those breeders to chime in.

Philsuma

Here is a good forum to discuss mixed species vivariums

Dendroboard.com

The guy to ask is SN: Jellyman

__________________
Heading down to CR / Panama the end of Nov. PM me if you are interested in going along.

jimmy11

I have been to dendro forums and thats where everyone was picking on that guy jellyman. And it seemed like everybody on that site is @$$holes about the topic sorry if I offended some folks but that what it looked like to me like nobody could speak for themselves and just jumped on that guys jellys back after one dude started arguing with him plus that website seems like its kinda if you were to hang out inside a girls locker room all day. I just want help, and I dont wanna go back and forth with people I already gotta girlfriend to do that with. I just want to get help with the frogs so I can make a luxurious vivarium for them to be happy in. And no breeders chimed in is there any around the Los Angeles area I live just noth of L.A. in ventura county california.

Philsuma

Well that IS a pretty funny statement.

If you are serious......read the forums and don't worry about posting threads about mixed species - you will almost never get an answer that you will be satisifed with. There are a few people who post on such issues but I question if they are actually sucessful, in the meaning of the word of course, and not just trying to puff themselves up and be the great hope for mixologists.

Go to a local meeting - there are lots of Hobbists and meeting / shows / gatherings in the SoCal area. When you get to a meeting with a large number of experienced hobbyists, you can ask you question there in person and get better information.

__________________
Heading down to CR / Panama the end of Nov. PM me if you are interested in going along.

jimmy11

Yeah thanks for your advice I just feel like I am gonna have to do this alone by trial and error I really didnt want to do that but I guess thats what people in this community force you to do. I will just have to do some more research and more reading before I really go through with it. I appreciate you being cool and I will try to go to some shows in my area. I just really wanted to talk to a breeder around my area first instead of goin to a show where they will be more intrested in conducting buisness than the what is the best advice to give

Knoxter

Hi Jimmy and welcome to the site.

I have done "trial by error" many years ago, on several topics.....and trust me, don't do it, you don't have to It's a waste of money, and causes uneccessary casualties. In t his day and age you don't have to. There is a lot of information on the web to help you out. But you have to be able to decipher the good stuff from the crap.

This is my suggestion for someone starting out like yourself:
Get a 20 or 30 gallon tank (maybe a nice exo terra). Do a little research and have a little fun setting up your tank. Give the tank a month or two to grow in nicely. Get a pair or small breeding group of frogs and have fun taking care of them. Get to know the frogs behavior, and get your routine down for feeding, watering, etc. (Maybe even breeding)

Once you feel comfortable taking care of your frogs....and that you still like caring for them, begin construction on your massive enclosure. There is also a lot of info on constrructing a nice viv on the web. Take your time here too. You should learn from the small tank, that caring for the tank and plants is as much work, if not more work than caring for your frogs themselves. Now, once your tank is thriving well, think about what type of frgs to add.

Regarding mixing your frogs in a large show tank: I thought it was the best idea in the world when I first started out in the hobby over 15 yrs ago. I had very large vivs with tinc, auratus, leucs, tricolor, tropical geckos, tree frogs, and blah, blah, blah, you name it, I threw it in there. All this in a 300 gal show tank in my living room. All I can say is Bad, Bad, Bad idea. If I were to do it again today, it would be much different. I'd put multiple species in the tank, but not species from the same family. I would not intentionally put my frogs in a situation where they might interbreed. I might get a species to occupy the floor, and another that climbed to reduce face to face encounters and reduce stress. So, if you really wanted to have a mixed species tank, without interbreeding, it can be done.

Regarding interbreeding: I don't do it. And I usually don't comment unless someone asks my opinion or advice. When I am asked what do I think about interbreeding or hybridizing dart frogs, I usually respond with "why would you want to do that?". Normally, the response is..."it would be cool to see what you get". That's where I end the conversation, because I don't think it would be cool to see what you get. Not bad, or wrong, just different. I'm at a different point in life, that's just me. And I do not judge anyone. Everyone is free to do as they wish....just look at our screwed up society!

Anyway, I consider myself an advanced hobbyist, and I believe it is important to keep my blood lines and species as pure as possible. There may come a time when these little guys are gone from the wild, and want to be proud to know I contributed to keeping them as nature intended. Although I do not mix my frogs together, it can be done....with a little care and research. Go to any local aquarium or small zoo and you'll see auratus together in the same tank with tincs all the time. I've asked the curator in charge of these these tanks if they knew the consequences of their action, and they always respond, they've never had a problem. Ignorance?......maybe.

Let me leave you with this. If you want a nice large show tank, that will be the focal point of any room, get it started without frogs first. If it's nice to look at without frogs, it will be even better with them.

Hope this helps, and good luck.

PS-Whatever you decide, keep us posted. Maybe start a construction journal and add a few pics of any frogs.

__________________
Marc

My frogs- Vanzolini, El Dorado (ong&gold), Cayo de Agua, Almerante, Gold Dust, Yuris, Imis, Inters, Taras, O Lamasi, Iquitos Vents, Varis, SI.


I appreciate everyone here. Without you, there would be no DFF. Thank you for your support.

jellyman

Jimmy,
I sent you a PM.
Bryan

Rich Frye

Jimmy,
With all of the mixing threads over the years , if you can not figure out why it is we do not suggest mixing, you never will.
Yes, Jelly is your go to guy when it comes to successfully (possibly, but tinc hybrids are not hard to create) creating hybrids, hanging with like minded mixers, and just not really understanding the science behind what every professional in the field attempts to pass along.
Stick close to his hip and you'll learn all Jelly knows. Just please be sure to let everyone know who initially set you straight in this hobby when you decide to put mutts out into the hobby , as Jelly is proud of.
Good luck,
Rich

__________________
Please enjoy Fryebrothersfrogs.com

Philsuma

Why not help him here in the public forum?

Isn't that the nature of public forums....to assist not only those who ask the questions but also others that come later and read the posts?

Why the secrecy of sending PM's ?

__________________
Heading down to CR / Panama the end of Nov. PM me if you are interested in going along.