Convolutionary

Hello all,

Right now I'm planning my first dart frog vivarium, and I have a lot of different questions (way to re-state my title : )). At present I'm thinking this will be a smaller tank in the neighborhood of 20 gallons or so, though I may go larger, and I'm debating between a pair of green and black auratus (also really like the blue and black) or Ranitomeya variabilis or imitator.

As far as the frogs themselves go, in what I've read online it seems that thumbnails may not be the best frogs for beginners. Thoughts? Also, are the blue and black variety of auratus really that shy compared to the green and black?

Regarding bromeliads, it might be kind of stupid but I have to ask: is it dangerous to use varieties that have spines/spikes on the leaves? I see them in a lot of pictures of dart frog vivariums and I'm sure they are part of the frogs' natural habitat, but again I just have to ask the question. It seems like they could pose a hazard...those spikes are sharp!

Thinking about either a 20 gallon or even larger viv., I would like to incorporate a water feature. It seems like the false bottom is the best way to go, but in any case the one thing that I can't seem to find good information on as far as waterfalls/streams. go is what kind of cleaning/maintenance they require. Do you use a filter in conjunction with the pump? Do you siphon the gravel like in a fish tank? How often if ever do you have to completely dismantle the set-up to address the area beneath the false bottom? And to be sure, is the false bottom necessary? I came across a couple of pages (sorry don't have links) that showed the construction of peoples' dart frog vivs with water features, but they just used a thick layer of gravel and/or siliconed sheets of glass onto the bottom of the tank so as to confine the water to a certain area. Any and all suggestions/thoughts about water features and how to keep them clean and healthy would be much appreciated.

I know that keeping the humidity where it needs to be and preventing food from getting out means not using the standard screen cover that most tanks come with. I quite like the tanks offered through TropicalEcos.com - Captive Bred Dart Frogs and Supplies, but I'd really like a tank with more height than they offer (and I"m not sure about getting something like this shipped). So what are good options for the tank's cover?

Finally (for now), I do not have air conditioning, and in the summer it can get into the 80s in the house. Most frogs seem to max out around 80 when it comes to ideal temperature....is this going to be a problem for the frogs?

Thanks ahead of time for reading and any input y'all might have!

nx2ured

A 20g tank is a good place to start. Is it a 20 tall ore a 20 long? Auratus, like many other frogs, have different personalities and can range from very shy to fairly bold. As a first choice being new to darts, choose something you will see often. I shyed away from thumbnails long ago because I could never see them.

Broms with spines are fine as they don't seem to bother the frogs any, but you will need high light to keep them colored up. They will scratch your arms up though when doing routine maintenance (trimming plants) on the tank.

Water features are overrated. They are pleasing to the eye, but can cause a lot of trouble down the road. In all of my breeder tanks I have a shallow pond that has tons of plants (duckweed, aluminum plants, java fern/moss, etc) to filter the water. That way I don't have to worry about taking up a lot of space and having to unclog a pump. I do have a 55g with a waterfall, but it is from when I first started with darts and I wouldn't do it again. It's kind of just a learning process. It's your tank and the sky is the limit.

If you have a standard fish tank, you can use a standard glass lid that comes with the tank. You can also have glass cut which is not very expensive either.

Temperature will be a problem because if your house gets 80 then your tank will be hotter due to the lights. I had some Leucs and Pumillio that I kept in my sunroom (because they tollerate higher temps better) and they did well. You could always purchase a small window air unit to cool the one room your frogs are in. Most frogs will suffer in those temps.

Hope this has helped. If you'd like, you can pm me and I'll give you my number for future questions

Lisa
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Convolutionary

Thanks for the great input Lisa. I was actually getting ready to edit my post to say that responses could be to any one of the topics I brought up...not necessarily all of them. With that said, thanks for hitting on each point.

When I made the post initially I was contemplating the tanks found at that link I mentioned (which work out to roughly 20 gallons) - I really wanted the front access. But I have a 30 gallon (not sure if long or high) as well as a 30ish gallon hex that I'm thinking I'll use instead, and I suppose that means I'm going to have to track down a local glass store for the cover. As far as that goes, you do need to leave a small section of the opening to cover with a screen material for ventilation (as opposed to covering the whole thing in glass), right? Do you silicone the glass in place, or is it just cut-to-size and placed loose over the top? I guess this is probably a matter of preference and what kind of tank one is working with.

The only reason I was thinking that I'd do a water fall/stream was to keep the water moving to prevent stagnation. I"m very encouraged to hear that you've had luck with a pond, because I'd much rather do something like that instead of dealing with a pump. Is the pond created with a container of some sort? Or did you just make it (them I guess; it sounds like you have multiple tanks) right in the gravel with no separation from the rest of the tank? By chance do you have any pictures of your pond(s) that you'd be willing to post? Either way, you just plant the pond with semi-aquatic plants and it keeps the water filtered and healthy without additional up-keep per se (aside from keeping the water level up)? Do you still employ a false bottom or just rely on the gravel for drainage?

I figured the house-hold temp would be an issue. I do have a window a/c unit but I try to use it as little as possible, though I guess I'd do it for the couple really hot months of the summer to keep the frogs safe. By chance do you know how high a temp. leucs and pumillo can comfortably tolerate (or at least how hot your sun room gets)?

Now there are a few things I was wondering about the background and heating.

As for the background, I'm thinking I'd prefer to go the superfoam route instead of siliconing whole sheets of cork bark to the back of the tank. Is one better than the other in your opinion? I like the superfoam because it seems you would be able to create a background that is more customized and usable since you can pick and choose where pieces of driftwood etc. go, and I was thinking on covering up the remaining exposed superfoam with orchid bark or similar. Thoughts?

In the case of either a superfoamed or siliconed cork background, can a tank heater (the under-tank pad variety) be used behind this without compromising the seal? Or would it be better to just place the tank heater under the tank? Or is a heat cord the way to go?

Thanks for reading and any (additional) input forthcoming!

Joe (and in case it's raised an eyebrow or two in the community, let me clarify that "Convolutionary" is a manipulation of the word "convoluted", not "evolution")

FINSWY

I actually just started a new 29 gallon viv, using "Good Stuff" foam. Be careful when you apply it though, because it expands to like five times the sprayed size. but, it creates a great background. Then what I did was I got black silicone and smeared it all over the dried foam and applied lots of coco fiber and let that cure at least 24 hours then put the vines and stuff like that in. I have an under tank heater that brings the temperature up a few degrees on the floor. I have a few leucs, and they seem to like the temperature within 74-79 degrees, with a few degree drop at night. They also like the humidity above 80%. I had my leucs under a swamp cooler, and I think they were catching a draft, and would hide all day. Then I moved them to a room that is slightly warmer than the 74 degrees in the house (and no breeze) and they bounch around like crazy! Hope it helps, good luck.

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PHINS FOR LIFE

Cliff Johnson

Hey Joe,

I just wanted to say thanks for posting the site with the vivariums. I dont have dart frogs yet and am collecting all of the information I can before getting started. It sounds like you are doing the same and I wish you good luck. The green and black auratus are my favorite as well, but what a shame that they are a shy species. If you go with the blue and black though, I have noticed through a lot of picture browsing that vivariums that use bright green and no colored flowers allow the frogs to stand out more and look absolutely stunning. Your last post was in July, did you get all set up yet?

-Cliff