Newbie with a ton of questions

weapon_x · 08-02-2010, 03:41 PM

Hi everyone,
I'm a new member but I've been lurking and learning for awhile now. I bought my first dart frogs in an established vivarium from someone this weekend. The setup came with 4 frogs (2 blue D. azureus and 2 green D. azureus). The current vivarium is 18WX18DX25H Zoo Med and is fairly well established the previous owner said she has had this setup for over a 2 years.

I have several questions that she could not answer for me and was hoping someone here could lend a hand.

1) Should I keep the 2 types together or move one pair to a separate but much smaller vivarium? I have a 18X18X18 Exo Terra I setup in January in preparation for buying a pair of dart frogs when I found a pair I liked. The smaller viv is established with Broms, water feature, etc and the temps/humidity are constant.

1B) If I should move one pair would one morph fair better in a smaller environment than the other?

Note: She said she had the blue pair already for a year or so then she added the green pair and there was some fighting in the beginning until the green ones grew to the same size as the blue ones. But they have not fought since then. It could have just been an established frog vs new comer/size thing but I'd rather not stress out any of them needlessly.

2) Proper Identification: The 2 green ones have different color patterns which could just be a morph or they could be different types. Honestly all the morph guides out there have just confused me more.

3) Under tank vs heat lamp for temp control: I haven't seen this on the boards and thought I'd ask. From breeding ball pythons we recommend under tank vs heat lamps because heat lamps kill your humidity, which keeping the humidity high/constant is obviously more vital with darts than with ball pythons. What does everyone on the forum recommend for heating?

4)Sexing/Breeding: The previous owner said she has never heard them calling and has never seen them breeding or had any tads result. It seems unlikely but possible that out of the 4 frogs not one is a male. I'm uploading some pictures including close up of their pads, hopefully they are mature enough to sex. I tried at my local reptile shops but they just suggested listening for them to call.

Thanks in advance for any and all help. Also, thanks for providing a ton of information and inspiration for the year or so I've been lurking and thinking about joining this hobby.

evolvstll · 08-02-2010, 07:07 PM

Welcome to the hobby.

The green ones are auratus. You should ask the ind you purchased them from were they obtained them so you can figure out what type they are. They could be from panama, costa rica, or nicaragua.

When putting frogs in a tank with established frogs the ones already in have their territory. When putting new frogs in with another I would remove the other one for a few weeks and then put them all in together...........however these are two different types of frogs and should not be kept together!!!!!!!!!!!!
The blue ones, the azureus should only be kept in together in pairs two at a time. The auratus can be kept in groups, you need to find out what type of auratus they are. So first move either the blue or the green out.

Temperature control should not be done by a heat lamp or pad. It should be controlled by the air temp of the room. Temp ideally is 68-80. Get much over 80 and you will have a beuatiful viv and no frogs!
The frogs need 80+ in humidity..................

If you get addtional pictures of the azureus we can help you sex them (top and sides). Neither of them has a loud call and you most often need to be right up next to the tank to hear them.

again welcome

weapon_x · 08-02-2010, 08:35 PM

Thanks for the reply. The person I bought them from said they were the both azureus just different morphs. So she probably won't be much help for more info.I'll head to the store for a small fish net to catch the auratus and move them to the smaller vivarium.

I upgraded the thermo from the sticker type used on aquariums she had to an accurite that measures temp and humidity. The temps are holding at 76 with just the overhead lights and get up to 82-85 with the heat lamp. I'll have to play around with that setup to that dialed in and figure out a way to automatically shut off the heat when it gets too hot. What do most people use to control the temps?

As for the humidity. There's no way she had it anywhere near 80%. I've covered the screen top with plastic wrap to keep in the humidity and sprayed and it's still only at about 53% and that's without the heat lamp. I can't imagine it being over 30%-40% when she had the heat lamp. I'll look into a misting system but between the water basin, waterfall, and hand misting they should be ok for the time being.

08-02-2010, 03:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
weapon_x Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Oceanside, CA Posts: 4 Real Name: Mark	Newbie with a ton of questions Hi everyone, I'm a new member but I've been lurking and learning for awhile now. I bought my first dart frogs in an established vivarium from someone this weekend. The setup came with 4 frogs (2 blue D. azureus and 2 green D. azureus). The current vivarium is 18WX18DX25H Zoo Med and is fairly well established the previous owner said she has had this setup for over a 2 years. I have several questions that she could not answer for me and was hoping someone here could lend a hand. 1) Should I keep the 2 types together or move one pair to a separate but much smaller vivarium? I have a 18X18X18 Exo Terra I setup in January in preparation for buying a pair of dart frogs when I found a pair I liked. The smaller viv is established with Broms, water feature, etc and the temps/humidity are constant. 1B) If I should move one pair would one morph fair better in a smaller environment than the other? Note: She said she had the blue pair already for a year or so then she added the green pair and there was some fighting in the beginning until the green ones grew to the same size as the blue ones. But they have not fought since then. It could have just been an established frog vs new comer/size thing but I'd rather not stress out any of them needlessly. 2) Proper Identification: The 2 green ones have different color patterns which could just be a morph or they could be different types. Honestly all the morph guides out there have just confused me more. 3) Under tank vs heat lamp for temp control: I haven't seen this on the boards and thought I'd ask. From breeding ball pythons we recommend under tank vs heat lamps because heat lamps kill your humidity, which keeping the humidity high/constant is obviously more vital with darts than with ball pythons. What does everyone on the forum recommend for heating? 4)Sexing/Breeding: The previous owner said she has never heard them calling and has never seen them breeding or had any tads result. It seems unlikely but possible that out of the 4 frogs not one is a male. I'm uploading some pictures including close up of their pads, hopefully they are mature enough to sex. I tried at my local reptile shops but they just suggested listening for them to call. Thanks in advance for any and all help. Also, thanks for providing a ton of information and inspiration for the year or so I've been lurking and thinking about joining this hobby. Attached Images Last edited by weapon_x; 08-02-2010 at 04:16 PM..

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08-02-2010, 07:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
evolvstll Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 20	Welcome to the hobby. The green ones are auratus. You should ask the ind you purchased them from were they obtained them so you can figure out what type they are. They could be from panama, costa rica, or nicaragua. When putting frogs in a tank with established frogs the ones already in have their territory. When putting new frogs in with another I would remove the other one for a few weeks and then put them all in together...........however these are two different types of frogs and should not be kept together!!!!!!!!!!!! The blue ones, the azureus should only be kept in together in pairs two at a time. The auratus can be kept in groups, you need to find out what type of auratus they are. So first move either the blue or the green out. Temperature control should not be done by a heat lamp or pad. It should be controlled by the air temp of the room. Temp ideally is 68-80. Get much over 80 and you will have a beuatiful viv and no frogs! The frogs need 80+ in humidity.................. If you get addtional pictures of the azureus we can help you sex them (top and sides). Neither of them has a loud call and you most often need to be right up next to the tank to hear them. again welcome

08-02-2010, 08:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
weapon_x Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Oceanside, CA Posts: 4 Real Name: Mark	Thanks for the reply. The person I bought them from said they were the both azureus just different morphs. So she probably won't be much help for more info.I'll head to the store for a small fish net to catch the auratus and move them to the smaller vivarium. I upgraded the thermo from the sticker type used on aquariums she had to an accurite that measures temp and humidity. The temps are holding at 76 with just the overhead lights and get up to 82-85 with the heat lamp. I'll have to play around with that setup to that dialed in and figure out a way to automatically shut off the heat when it gets too hot. What do most people use to control the temps? As for the humidity. There's no way she had it anywhere near 80%. I've covered the screen top with plastic wrap to keep in the humidity and sprayed and it's still only at about 53% and that's without the heat lamp. I can't imagine it being over 30%-40% when she had the heat lamp. I'll look into a misting system but between the water basin, waterfall, and hand misting they should be ok for the time being.