[Rich Frye]

Originally Posted by BrianD

... but the fact of the matter is that eventually you will have too many frogs via offspring and want to either sell or trade them for new frogs or pocket cash and anybody who is not a total newb will never even consider dealing with you.

You know Brian, one would absolutely think so. I don't know of any darts I have worked with in my seven year stint , where I knew I had at least one male and at least one female, which have not bred for me. Not one species, local, morph, or sub-species. You put a male with a female and eventually they breed. Maybe not in big numbers, maybe not like auratus, but they always seem to breed for me. It is a natural drive.
On a side note, I know that Jelly has pronounced that he has not produced any frogs from his mix tank of , at last count , at least 13, yes , I'll say it again, at least 13 frogs, males and females, that can all interbreed. 13 frogs, 12 years, no froglets. Hmmm seems a bit un-natural to me...
He has stated that after moving the herd into his new tank he will care for eggs and raise anything produced by the herd. I don't generally search out posts by Jelly, so I'm not sure if the move has prompted breeding or not. But Jelly could answer that for us. I'd like to know who gets the mutts he pumps out...

[Philsuma]

I'm glad you saved that pic Rich......I just now saved it as well.

He's actually been quiet and respectful on DB but not here, for whatever reason.

Again......nobody STARTS a thread with "We all hate mixed species tanks ect ect" We only REACT to the attempts to someone trying to rally new people to that activity.


BIG difference

[Rich Frye]

Originally Posted by Philsuma

I'm glad you saved that pic Rich......I just now saved it as well.

He's actually been quiet and respectful on DB but not here, for whatever reason.

Again......nobody STARTS a thread with "We all hate mixed species tanks ect ect" We only REACT to the attempts to someone trying to rally new people to that activity.


BIG difference

...well...I actually did start a thread about that viv over on Dart Den awhile back. But it was in reaction to him posting about it on Dendro, and his "rally" attempt over there.
This was after I bailed on Dendro.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Rich Frye

13 frogs, 12 years, no froglets. Hmmm seems a bit un-natural to me...
He has stated that after moving the herd into his new tank he will care for eggs and raise anything produced by the herd.

I'd like to know who gets the mutts he pumps out...

I have to say, that's ridiculous! Everything I have ever kept in captivity that was capable of reproducing has, and with great success. Either there have been many X-breeds produced from this tank and are kept off the boards (which I suspect is the case) or this is a PRIME EXAMPLE of why mixed tanks suck ass! lol. (Sorry, had to say it) My big worry now is that some new comer sees this and says "Hey, mixed tanks won't breed, which is perfect cuz I want all kinds of cool colors and don't want to deal with raising babies". (Unfortunately, I come from 30 years of an industry that lives by Murphy's Law!) If in fact they really have never reproduced then it should place a GIANT RED FLAG on the whole idea of a multi species, overcrowded vivarium.
I too would like to know who has acquired or has dibs on any potential offspring from this tank. I would not only avoid them and their close associates like the plague, but PM everyone and their mother who even thought about publicly posting interest in these frogs. I am finding (sadly I must admit) that there is a smaller and smaller community of dedicated froggers that I can trust when it comes to where their frogs originated from. There was a time when I would take a pet store or "Jobber's" word for it, but anymore NO WAY!!!! There are too many morphs/locales in the hobby now days to think that I could properly identify anything based upon looks alone. I may not have 7 years, but I have 3 years under the wing of over 30 years of experience.

It's all plain and simple... do what you will, we can't stop you but please try and do the right thing by encouraging newcomers and inexperienced froggers to learn the tools of the trade and the proper steps before filling their heads with BS that will most likely end up in an unsuccessful attempt in this hobby. This will only lead to bad experiences and discouraging people from this wonderful hobby.

Just my 0.02, take it or leave it, I really don't care. (Well, I do care but can't really do a whole lot about it)

Brian

[jellyman]

Thanks for posting that pic Rich. You have proven yet again your inability to post the whole truth. This picture represents approxamately a 12"x12" section of a 36"x24" enclosure during feeding time. What rich neglected to do was to also post the full tank shots of this tank or any of the pictures of my current 6'x3'x30" setup that these frogs are now enjoying. The tank in the photo is now home to 5 leucemelas that I recently purchased from a breeder that had zero issue selling to a known mixer.

Here is a full tank shot that Rich also has access to but declined to post:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC01291.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC01294.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC01262.jpg

Here are some shots of the new setup, also available to Rich that he neglected to post:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC04934.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC04933.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC04935.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC04936.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC05055.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC05059.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC05064.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC05069.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...3/DSC05066.jpg



Another lie would be that these frogs have not produced. I have told Rich that I have seen eggs but I have never had the desire to pull them and raise them. Due to rich's relentless pursuit of not telling the whole truth I currently have 3 tads in the water and just pulled 8 eggs out last night. I'll post some pics later tonight. My intent has never been to raise frogs and have simply let the eggs in the past be eaten or destroyed but because Rich's only arguement is that the mixed setup is not successful due to the lack off offspring then I guess I'll leap the last hurdle.

[Rich Frye]

Originally Posted by jellyman

...blather, blather, bla , bla..


Another lie would be that these frogs have not produced. I have told Rich that I have seen eggs but I have never had the desire to pull them and raise them. Due to rich's relentless pursuit of not telling the whole truth I currently have 3 tads in the water and just pulled 8 eggs out last night. I'll post some pics later tonight. My intent has never been to raise frogs and have simply let the eggs in the past be eaten or destroyed but because Rich's only arguement is that the mixed setup is not successful due to the lack off offspring then I guess I'll leap the last hurdle.

Originally Posted by Rich Frye

On a side note, I know that Jelly has pronounced that he has not produced any frogs from his mix tank of , at last count , at least 13, yes , I'll say it again, at least 13 frogs, males and females, that can all interbreed. 13 frogs, 12 years, no froglets. Hmmm seems a bit un-natural

Here's something I would point out to a ten year old newbie...frogs are frogs , eggs are eggs. An egg may turn into a froggie, but not necessarily. Eggs do not hop around and eat flies. Frogs do!.
You throw around the term "lie" and "liar" a lot. Your comprehension of a simple truthful statement that the joke has not produced any frogs, mutts, ect. is below that of any child who can simply read this sentence...

" I know that Jelly has pronounced that he has not produced any frogs from his mix tank..."

What part of that almost strictly monosyllabic sentence do you not understand?

I really would suggest you stop calling me a liar. That would be my last warning.

I'm getting less and less worried about the mutts making it into the hobby. If someone has trouble with reading comprehension at a third grade level, I have my doubts about them producing froglets that live long...

[jellyman]

Rich, the point you were trying to make is that my frogs were not breeding due to the conditions of a mixed environment and that I had stated they were not breeding. This is not the truth and is not what I had told you. I chose, past tense, not to pull eggs because it was, again past tense, not of any interest to me to raise the offspring. Your continued drive to discredit the success has given me reason to pull eggs. I have three tads that are about to pop their back legs and 8 more viable eggs I pulled last night. Your continued half truths to promote your agenda further discredit your knowledge. You are one of the last die hards that continues to deny that mixing tanks can be done with success and is being done more and more often. Your agenda is great and your passion for it is awesome. Direct your knowledge to help your cause rather then hinder it. By speaking in absolutes you set yourself and your cause up for failure. Do you not find it concerning that you have been banned from dendroboard and dartden averages maybe one hit a day??

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:09 PM ----------

[quote=Rich Frye;3124]

I really would suggest you stop calling me a liar. That would be my last warning.

[quote]

And I do not appreciate your threats either. What I asked is that you have the integrity to tell the full truth and not only what promotes your agenda.

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Philsuma

I'm glad you saved that pic Rich......I just now saved it as well.

He's actually been quiet and respectful on DB but not here, for whatever reason.

Again......nobody STARTS a thread with "We all hate mixed species tanks ect ect" We only REACT to the attempts to someone trying to rally new people to that activity.


BIG difference

Pointing out that someone is only stating a portion of the information to promote an agenda is not being disrespectful. Respect is earned and the way some people talk down to other memebers earns no respect from me.

There is absolutely no difference between someone from the mixing side of the issue rallying people as oppossed to the purist side of the issue rallying people as long as ALL the information is accurately stated.

[Rich Frye]

The point I am trying to make is written in my words, not your's. You are neither capable of comprehending nor digesting any written factual or scientific information. And thus, I (and many others) have wasted more than enough time debunking your silliness. I have better things to do with my time.

[quaz]

dart frogs have such a rich diversity of physical traits and i, for one. Would like to explore the possibilities of what color mutations could be made.

I know its not all 'PC' and nice but I'd rather buy a new frog than spend the time and money testing for desease. really, they're just frogs , with a exponensial reproduction rate to where a few loses or frogs with hidden ailments won't hurt the hobby or population of captive frogs.

I have had quite a few sucessfull mixed species tanks and enjoy the diversity in one large viv.

Thats the way I'll do it and I'll share my success's and failures with all who inquire. And yes I've had some loses and I'd recomend beginners who don't see their frogs as expendable to just be carefull about gender when mature and about mixing adults with juvis and mixing wild frogs or frogs from dif venders together but mix species is the least concern.

[Rich Frye]

This is the post with which you chose to bring people over to the Dark Side? Wow. Makes my job easier...

Originally Posted by quaz

dart frogs have such a rich diversity of physical traits and i, for one. Would like to explore the possibilities of what color mutations could be made.

Not sure what your point is here. You say "dart frogs have such a rich diversity of physical traits", and yet that diversity is not good enough for you? Nature needs to be outdone, even though I'm quite sure you have not even come close to working will all the possible species available now?
The mutations that occur in nature , in a natural setting, within natural time periods are the "mutations" I want to see.

Originally Posted by quaz

I know its not all 'PC' and nice

You know it's not "nice" , and yet you still have the need to do it?

Originally Posted by quaz

but I'd rather buy a new frog than spend the time and money testing for desease. really, they're just frogs , with a exponensial reproduction rate to where a few loses or frogs with hidden ailments won't hurt the hobby or population of captive frogs.

SOOO wrong, on SOOOO many levels. Rather just replace frogs as you kill them. Bravo! I think we really do need the froggie police now...

Originally Posted by quaz

I have had quite a few sucessfull mixed species tanks and enjoy the diversity in one large viv.

Thats the way I'll do it and I'll share my success's and failures with all who inquire. And yes I've had some loses and I'd recomend beginners who don't see their frogs as expendable to just be carefull about gender when mature and about mixing adults with juvis and mixing wild frogs or frogs from dif venders together but mix species is the least concern.

Please share your failures with us. Since you offered. I'm very curious.
I don't know many of us who consider our frogs expendable. You are quite in the minority. That is not a surprise however. Once again, with mixers it is all about what the 'owner' wants , and not what is best for the frogs. Selfish, immature beyond belief. Sad.



Rich