[Kermit]

Hey everyone

I have three leucomelas frogs in one viv and there about a year old. I recently fond a pet store that had a couple of azureus. I wanted an opinoin on mixing one artazureus and three bumblle bees? The leucomelas that i have do very well together and dont fight also tank size is the exo terra " 24" x 18" x 24".

[evolvstll]

mixed species tanks in this hobby is a big no no. Most people consider leucs to be a group frog. In my experience they do better in a 2.1.0 or a 1.1.0 ratio. Azureus are not a group frog. Mixing leucs and azureus or any two different morphs is a large no no............for the short and long term health of the frogs.
Set up a 10 gallon and keep no more than 2 azureus or leucs in it. It is frowned upon in this hobby to mix!
There is a meeting at Brians house next Saturday the 20th for Southern California Froggers. If you plan on keeping pdf's going to the meeting and talking with some of us might be a great experienc.

Jason

[coxdre123]

I wouold have to agree. Mixing is frowned upon in this hobby. Not only does it take away the beauty of the animal, but it robs the species of their exsistance. Sorry for being so deep. lol! Just my opinion. Also, I live in So Cal and would like to attend the meeting next week. Send me an invite. I missed the one last year in October! Thanks!

[Kermit]

Thanks for the advice thats why I posted it yall feel free to be deep. yes very intrested on the meeting ples send me invite as well i still have alot to learn about this hobby.

[evolvstll]

The meeting is at Brians house in Beaumont. Email him at MELLOWROO421@YAHOO.COM for specifics.

[jellyman]

I for one am not as "deep" as most when it comes to the mixing debate. As long as the same precautions are taken as when setting up a single species enclosure health issues are not any different. Unless these are wild frogs, mixing frogs from different parts of the globe is not a health issue. The frogs should still be tested just to make sure they are clean and free of disease and parasite due to the conditions and care of the person from which you purchased the frogs. I have mixed leucs and azureus in several enclosures and they tend to ignore each other. On the rare occassion, I have had frogs that showed aggression, and were seperated to either solo enclosures or matched up as a pair only enclosure. You will find that when trying to add juveniles of the same species that the possibility of aggression is just as possible as the frogs mature.

[Rich Frye]

There are a great number of reasons not to mix, and really none to mixthat benefit the frogs. Period.
So, unless the knowledge is already there as to how to absolutely properly test and treat for a huge myriad of possible contaminants from totally different parts of the world, it is best for the frogs to not mix.
"Precautions" to one are absolutely nothing to another. Full proper health and quarantine measures include, at the very least, three negative fecals and other testing to make sure that the frog you got from 'Bill' that is indigenous to Venezuela does not cross contaminate the dart you got from 'Ted' which is indigenous to Suriname .
It basically comes down to the husbandry of what is best for the frogs, not viewers necessarily...


Rich

[Rich Frye]

Originally Posted by jellyman

As long as the same precautions are taken as when setting up a single species enclosure health issues are not any different.

After re-reading this post , I had to ask a few questions and post a few facts.
Could you please let us know exactly what precautions you take before setting up a single or multi-species tank? I am curious as to the exact quarantine procedure.

Originally Posted by jellyman

Unless these are wild frogs, mixing frogs from different parts of the globe is not a health issue.

This is incorrect. Simply, if WC luecs come in with Chytrid ,and were not tested and treated they can pass it to any frog they produce and can also pass it right along to any other frogs worked with.
If the auratus WC had hookworms and were not tested any frogs they produce can potentially have hookworms.
If the azureus WCs came in with coccidia and were not tested and/or treated , any froglets produced can be infected with coccidia. Coccidia in in-curable in darts.
Bottom line. If the founding stock has not been tested and treated for ailments found it is impossible to state the health of the founders. It is then impossible to say that mixed tanks are not harboring a mix of disease from Costa Rica, Suriname, and Venezuela if the offspring from said untesteds are co-mingling. You can not tell the full health of a frog from looking at it. And you can not tell the full health of a frog from one simple test. To say that CBs can not cross contaminate is simply incorrect.

Originally Posted by jellyman

The frogs should still be tested just to make sure they are clean and free of disease and parasite due to the conditions and care of the person from which you purchased the frogs.

Correct. The standard would be three consecutive clean fecal tests and checking to see exactly where the frogs came from to understand what other testing may be needed beside the three clean fecals.

Originally Posted by jellyman

I have mixed leucs and azureus in several enclosures and they tend to ignore each other. On the rare occassion, I have had frogs that showed aggression, and were seperated to either solo enclosures or matched up as a pair only enclosure. You will find that when trying to add juveniles of the same species that the possibility of aggression is just as possible as the frogs mature.

You are the minority when it comes to mixing no-aggression. Most of us do not even like to place more than one female leuc with another female leuc, the same with pretty much all tincs (which azureus are) , no female-female stuff. Makes for aggression one may miss while at work or otherwise taken away from viewing the interaction. I've seen two leucs wrestle to the point there was not even a doubt they would not be occupying the same viv ever again. But, I guess if you know exactly what you are doing and are able to separate them at a seconds grab it is possible. If you are not a new frogger (like the OP) you may be able to keep the frogs alive.

Rich

[jellyman]

Rich, Stop trying to create a negative environment. You have already asked and I have already answered these questions. I have also asked that if you need further clarifiaction to simply send me a PM rather then clutter the forums/threads.
Have a nice day
Bryan

[Rich Frye]

Originally Posted by jellyman

Rich, Stop trying to create a negative environment. You have already asked and I have already answered these questions. I have also asked that if you need further clarifiaction to simply send me a PM rather then clutter the forums/threads.
Have a nice day
Bryan

Bryan,
I asked for you to go through the exact quarantine procedures. This is something I have posted on many times and is found in quite a few of my posts around the forums. But I have yet to read what your process is. One of the reasons I ask is that you state verbatim;
" As long as the same precautions are taken as when setting up a single species enclosure health issues are not any different."
I would like to know exactly what "precautions are taken" by you. More than slightly ambiguous. No? The new frogger who asked initially would probably also like to know about quarantine also...I hope this simple request is not misconstrued as "a negative environment", rather a legitimate question, not yet answered. To PM you would exclude anyone else who aslo wishes to know about your system. No PMs needed.

I really had not other questions for you. The rest of my post was simply pointing out incorrect information. The pointing out of incorrect information should also absolutely not be taken as "a negative environment" ( especially for those who are in some sort of schooling , and get tests back that are other than perfect...) rather a situation which should be taken advantage of to keep/make our frogs as healthy as possible.

Rich