auratus dead and skinny tinctorius fell over

DannyMeister · 09-28-2010, 11:56 PM

I am a new PDF owner that bought 4 little froglets two months ago. Until yesterday I though all was well. Then I found my favorite little turquoise and bronze auratus laying dead in the viv.

He was skinnier than I remembered seeing him the day before, but then again he was always smaller than the others and I didn't get good looks as frequently because he was so shy and scurried under cover any time I approached for feeding. I did try to make a point of seeing him eat some flies each day, though.

Right now my previously active tinctorius seems sluggish and i saw him on his back a bit ago. Just a few hours ago he was happily snipping up flies. I set him back upright and he has taken a few steps since. This frog is the next skinniest after the deceased auratus.

I am not very experienced with PDF's but my first inclination is malnutrition. I do two daily feedings of FF's raised on Josh's Frogs medium, but unfortunately haven't been powdering frequently. Now I feel really guilty! I hope I haven't mistreated them! I'll certainly make sure I dust for nearly every meal. Is it essential for me to get some other variety in the diet as well? A local pet store does sell pheonix worms, but they seem awfully big for these frogs.

I took some pictures today and compared with pics from a month ago I think they are all skinnier except for the leuc.

Pics of current frog that isn't doing well:

He looks so skinny

Pics of my azurues:

I think this one is looking a little thinner too.

Pic of my fat, happy, bold leucomelas:

Pic of the deceased turquois and bronze auratus from last month

Pic of the current set up:

This is a 29 gallon with a little over half above water currently (I didn't intend to have such a large pond area, but I haven't yet started the big viv project with moving water structures, better drainage, etc). Substrate is coconut fiber that I'm disappointed with because it stains the water. Will probably move to sphagnum soon. Humidity is kept high with a Mist King system. Room temp stays around 75. I've got two small orchids in the back left, a cork bark structure, a wandering jew, and begonia, and one bromeliad. No leaf litter right now but they seem to spend most of their time under living foliage so I figured that's OK.

I've convinced myself that I've just been a bad owner and not paid close enough attention to their nutrition, having gotten spoiled with hardy lizards over the past few years. Do these pictures and info help any of you more experienced frog owners confirm that, and maybe give me a word of advice?

Thank you.

BrianD · 10-03-2010, 03:19 PM

from what I can see you have a few problems to worry about. First off is the vitamin dusting. Your frogs need regular supplementation. There are plenty of easily available supplements you can use but I would recommend dusting every other feeding if feeding daily, or every feeding if only feeding a few times a week.
The next biggest problem you have is the vivarium. These are terrestrial frogs and do not swim for the most part. They will be better off with more ground space. The pond you have is IMO too large, wasting valuable real estate in the tank. If you feel the need to keep a pond, limit it to a small corner of the tank to give back all the necessary land requirements these frogs need.
Next problem I see is the mixture of different sized/types of frogs. Darts are quite territorial and can easily stress a smaller frog, resulting in not eating and eventually death. Some frogs are bigger bullies than others, and some do better with tank mates than others. Mixing species is never a good idea. Having bold territorial species like tincs (your azureus and your Nikita/citronella) in anything other than sexed pairs or trios of the same size and morph often ends in disaster.
I would recommend splitting them all into their own separate vivariums and limiting the amount of space used for ponds. They will be happier with more ground space and less likely to be stressed by their tank mates. If you feel the need to give each one a tank mate, my advice would be to make sure it is of the same species and morph and with the tincs, try not to put females together as they too will fight often ending in disaster.

Good luck and happy frogging!

09-28-2010, 11:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
DannyMeister Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2	auratus dead and skinny tinctorius fell over I am a new PDF owner that bought 4 little froglets two months ago. Until yesterday I though all was well. Then I found my favorite little turquoise and bronze auratus laying dead in the viv. He was skinnier than I remembered seeing him the day before, but then again he was always smaller than the others and I didn't get good looks as frequently because he was so shy and scurried under cover any time I approached for feeding. I did try to make a point of seeing him eat some flies each day, though. Right now my previously active tinctorius seems sluggish and i saw him on his back a bit ago. Just a few hours ago he was happily snipping up flies. I set him back upright and he has taken a few steps since. This frog is the next skinniest after the deceased auratus. I am not very experienced with PDF's but my first inclination is malnutrition. I do two daily feedings of FF's raised on Josh's Frogs medium, but unfortunately haven't been powdering frequently. Now I feel really guilty! I hope I haven't mistreated them! I'll certainly make sure I dust for nearly every meal. Is it essential for me to get some other variety in the diet as well? A local pet store does sell pheonix worms, but they seem awfully big for these frogs. I took some pictures today and compared with pics from a month ago I think they are all skinnier except for the leuc. Pics of current frog that isn't doing well: He looks so skinny Pics of my azurues: I think this one is looking a little thinner too. Pic of my fat, happy, bold leucomelas: Pic of the deceased turquois and bronze auratus from last month Pic of the current set up: This is a 29 gallon with a little over half above water currently (I didn't intend to have such a large pond area, but I haven't yet started the big viv project with moving water structures, better drainage, etc). Substrate is coconut fiber that I'm disappointed with because it stains the water. Will probably move to sphagnum soon. Humidity is kept high with a Mist King system. Room temp stays around 75. I've got two small orchids in the back left, a cork bark structure, a wandering jew, and begonia, and one bromeliad. No leaf litter right now but they seem to spend most of their time under living foliage so I figured that's OK. I've convinced myself that I've just been a bad owner and not paid close enough attention to their nutrition, having gotten spoiled with hardy lizards over the past few years. Do these pictures and info help any of you more experienced frog owners confirm that, and maybe give me a word of advice? Thank you. Last edited by DannyMeister; 09-28-2010 at 11:59 PM..

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

10-03-2010, 03:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
BrianD Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 26	from what I can see you have a few problems to worry about. First off is the vitamin dusting. Your frogs need regular supplementation. There are plenty of easily available supplements you can use but I would recommend dusting every other feeding if feeding daily, or every feeding if only feeding a few times a week. The next biggest problem you have is the vivarium. These are terrestrial frogs and do not swim for the most part. They will be better off with more ground space. The pond you have is IMO too large, wasting valuable real estate in the tank. If you feel the need to keep a pond, limit it to a small corner of the tank to give back all the necessary land requirements these frogs need. Next problem I see is the mixture of different sized/types of frogs. Darts are quite territorial and can easily stress a smaller frog, resulting in not eating and eventually death. Some frogs are bigger bullies than others, and some do better with tank mates than others. Mixing species is never a good idea. Having bold territorial species like tincs (your azureus and your Nikita/citronella) in anything other than sexed pairs or trios of the same size and morph often ends in disaster. I would recommend splitting them all into their own separate vivariums and limiting the amount of space used for ponds. They will be happier with more ground space and less likely to be stressed by their tank mates. If you feel the need to give each one a tank mate, my advice would be to make sure it is of the same species and morph and with the tincs, try not to put females together as they too will fight often ending in disaster. Good luck and happy frogging!